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PBS NewsHour (Nov to Dec 2017), Dec 11, 2017 - Counterterrorism chief says ISIS adapting to inspire, not cont...

Dec 11, 2017 - Counterterrorism chief says ISIS adapting to inspire, not cont...

Counterterrorism chief says ISIS adapting to inspire, not control attacks.

Judy Woodruff:

We return now to our top story- the attempted bombing this morning of a New York City subway.

A short time ago, I spoke with Nicholas Rasmussen. He's the director of the National Counterterrorism Center. He will be leaving that post later this month, after 16 years of counterterror work.

I began by asking him what more he could tell us about today's attack. Nicholas Rasmussen:

This is the kind of event that bears all the hallmarks of a terrorist event.

I'm certainly going to defer to my FBI and New York Police Department colleagues who have been speaking publicly about it today. They're the closest to the investigation. But, again, what I'm hearing from them, what we're hearing from them suggests that this is an individual who had a terrorist intent, and at least it seems as if he wasn't able to carry out the kind of deadly attack that he might have hoped to. Judy Woodruff:

Should New York City have been better prepared for this, or is this the kind of low-tech event that Americans are just going to have to get used to happening? Nicholas Rasmussen:

I would put New York up there with any metropolitan police department in the world, perhaps even above any metropolitan police department in the world, in terms of their level of preparation and their level of capability.

So the last thing you will hear from me is any critique or criticism of how well New York is prepared. This is just a feature of the landscape we're living in, in the modern world, the kind of terrorist attack that's very difficult to prevent, if it involves — if, as it appears as it might, involves someone who was acting alone, acting with relatively small-scale material capabilities, that these are not the kinds of things that are easily prevented. Judy Woodruff:

Someone who appears to be acting alone.

How does this fit into the larger picture of the terrorism threat that this country faces? Nicholas Rasmussen:

Again, I want to be careful about talking about this particular case, because I think we have learned over time that these stories always have layers, and there will be layers to be uncovered as the NYPD and the FBI investigate this individual.

But it, as I said, bears the hallmarks of the kind of terrorism we're seeing, individuals who are not necessarily tied directly to a terrorist organization. They're not operating at the command-and-control of some figure in Baghdad or some figure in Syria, but they are often operating inspired by a terrorism narrative that they see and attach to a group like ISIS. And those individuals acting alone can be quite lethal and quite dangerous. But they also, at the same time, don't — often don't have the same high-level capability of a terrorist cell of the sort we saw during the al-Qaida-dominated era of a few years ago. Judy Woodruff:

Well, you just referred to ISIS, the Islamic State, being driven out of the territory that they had been holding in Iraq and in Syria, so how do you describe the threat that they pose now to the United States? Nicholas Rasmussen:

Well, we have certainly done a great deal to counter the kind of threat ISIS presented when it maintained that kind of territorial control over large swathes of Iraq and Syria.

But now, having shrunk that territorial safe haven, the group is finding that it is adapting its model, looking to inspire individuals operating overseas, rather than trying to direct and command and control them, but instead looking to motivate individuals to act in their own environment. Don't come to Iraq and Syria. Do what you can where you are using whatever tools are at your disposal, whether that's a gun or a knife or a vehicle, as we saw in New York some weeks back as well. That's a different model of terrorism. It's harder to prevent. It looks often more like a criminal model, but it still can be quite lethal and dangerous. Judy Woodruff:

And what does that mean for Americans in terms of how Americans, people who live in this country should think about terrorism? Nicholas Rasmussen:

I think it calls — it puts us in a place where Americans need to be responsible, in many cases, for their own security, looking around, understanding what's happening around you, maintaining situational awareness, because it's not likely in most cases that the FBI or the federal government is going to bust up a terrorist cell of this sort in advance. But, as I said, these acts almost operate at the level of criminal acts. They're not very different from what criminals often do. And so, much like other forms of criminal violence, see something, say something, you know, reach out to the local law enforcement authorities if you see something that looks amiss and be a participant in your own community's security. Judy Woodruff:

So, what would you say are the odds of another huge 9/11-scale attack on this country? Nicholas Rasmussen:

I don't know that I would put a single number on it, but I do know that the work we have done as a government against al-Qaida operating out of Pakistan and Iraq — Pakistan and Afghanistan over the last decade has made that kind of attack increasingly difficult for al-Qaida. And we face far less prospect of that kind of attack today than we faced a decade ago. That's something I think Americans can feel pretty good about. Judy Woodruff:

President Trump has taken, I think it's fair to say, a much stronger anti-Islam stance than his predecessors. How has that affected the work that you do? Nicholas Rasmussen:

I would say, at one level, it really doesn't impact the work that we do. The kind of direct security-service-to-security-service cooperation that we engage in with key partner countries around the world, whether that's — it's the British, the French, the Germans, the Australians, the Canadians, all of our closest partners, I would argue that it really doesn't impact day the day the kind of professional level law enforcement and intelligence operation we engage in. Where it can become complicating sometimes is that we need the support and participation of Muslim communities in our effort to identify potential terrorists and to get ahead of or disrupt potential terrorist attacks.

And anything perceived — even if it's just a perception that the United States is anti-Islam, anything that makes that process of community engagement more difficult, that just adds to our challenges. Judy Woodruff:

Finally, there's a lot of conversation lately about cuts at the State Department and the diplomatic corps. What have you seen in terms of staffing in your own field? Have you seen cuts? And how is the morale there? The president has been pretty critical of the intelligence community in the past year. How do you — how do you… Nicholas Rasmussen:

Well, thus far, I think we have been able to sustain the kind of resource picture that we need to carry out the functions that the American people would want us to carry out. And we have not experienced those kinds of cuts.

As far as morale is concerned, when you have a mission like counterterrorism, it isn't hard to keep morale up in your organization. My work force, my colleagues at NCTC, come to work every day knowing exactly why they're there, and it's to keep fellow Americans safe. They're also, I think, increasingly becoming used to the idea that everybody's better off in our line of work if you can tune out politics. And so I encourage them to do that, tune out politics of — anything that you're watching on TV that causes you to stop doing what you're doing is probably not a good thing. So, especially with younger officers, I try to keep them focused on the mission, keep them focused on doing what they signed up to do, which is everything in their power to keep their fellow Americans safe. Judy Woodruff:

Nick Rasmussen, the director of the National Counterterrorism Center for the next, what, 11 days. Nicholas Rasmussen:

That's right. Judy Woodruff:

Thank you very much. Nicholas Rasmussen:

Thank you, Judy.

Dec 11, 2017 - Counterterrorism chief says ISIS adapting to inspire, not cont... 11. Dezember 2017 - Chef der Terrorismusbekämpfung sagt, ISIS passe sich an, um zu inspirieren, nicht... Dec 11, 2017 - El jefe de la lucha antiterrorista dice que ISIS se adapta para inspirar, no cont... 11 décembre 2017 - Le chef de la lutte contre le terrorisme déclare que l'Etat islamique s'adapte pour inspirer, pas pour... 2017年12月11日 - テロ対策責任者、ISISは刺激に適応しているのであって、争いに適応しているのではない... 11 grudnia 2017 r. - Szef ds. walki z terroryzmem twierdzi, że ISIS dostosowuje się do inspirowania, a ni... 11 dez 2017 - O chefe da luta antiterrorista diz que o ISIS está a adaptar-se para inspirar e não para cont... Dec 11, 2017 - Глава контртеррористической службы говорит, что ИГИЛ приспосабливается к тому, чтобы вдохновлять, а не противостоять... 11 Aralık 2017 - Terörle mücadele şefi IŞİD'in savaşmak yerine ilham vermeye adapte olduğunu söyledi... 11 грудня 2017 р. - Керівник антитерористичної служби заявив, що ІДІЛ адаптується, щоб надихати, а не протидіяти... 2017 年 12 月 11 日 - 反恐负责人表示,ISIS 的适应是为了激励而不是持续...... 2017 年 12 月 11 日 - 反恐負責人表示 ISIS 的調整是為了激勵而不是繼續...

Counterterrorism chief says ISIS adapting to inspire, not control attacks. Le chef du contre-terrorisme dit que l'EIIS s'adapte pour inspirer et non contrôler les attaques.

Judy Woodruff:

We return now to our top story- the attempted bombing this morning of a New York City subway. Nous revenons maintenant à notre histoire principale - la tentative d'attentat à la bombe ce matin d'un métro de New York.

A short time ago, I spoke with Nicholas Rasmussen. He's the director of the National Counterterrorism Center. He will be leaving that post later this month, after 16 years of counterterror work.

I began by asking him what more he could tell us about today's attack. Nicholas Rasmussen:

This is the kind of event that bears all the hallmarks of a terrorist event.

I'm certainly going to defer to my FBI and New York Police Department colleagues who have been speaking publicly about it today. Je vais certainement m'en remettre à mes collègues du FBI et du département de police de New York qui en ont parlé publiquement aujourd'hui. They're the closest to the investigation. But, again, what I'm hearing from them, what we're hearing from them suggests that this is an individual who had a terrorist intent, and at least it seems as if he wasn't able to carry out the kind of deadly attack that he might have hoped to. Judy Woodruff:

Should New York City have been better prepared for this, or is this the kind of low-tech event that Americans are just going to have to get used to happening? Nicholas Rasmussen:

I would put New York up there with any metropolitan police department in the world, perhaps even above any metropolitan police department in the world, in terms of their level of preparation and their level of capability. Je placerais New York parmi tous les services de police métropolitains du monde, peut-être même au-dessus de tous les services de police métropolitains du monde, en termes de niveau de préparation et de capacité.

So the last thing you will hear from me is any critique or criticism of how well New York is prepared. Donc, la dernière chose que vous entendrez de ma part, c'est une critique ou une critique de la qualité de la préparation de New York. This is just a feature of the landscape we're living in, in the modern world, the kind of terrorist attack that's very difficult to prevent, if it involves — if, as it appears as it might, involves someone who was acting alone, acting with relatively small-scale material capabilities, that these are not the kinds of things that are easily prevented. C'est juste une caractéristique du paysage dans lequel nous vivons, dans le monde moderne, le genre d'attaque terroriste qu'il est très difficile d'empêcher, si elle implique — si, comme il semble que cela puisse être, implique quelqu'un qui agissait seul, agissant avec des capacités matérielles relativement réduites, que ce ne sont pas le genre de choses qui peuvent facilement être évitées. Judy Woodruff:

Someone who appears to be acting alone.

How does this fit into the larger picture of the terrorism threat that this country faces? Comment cela s'intègre-t-il dans le tableau plus large de la menace terroriste à laquelle ce pays est confronté ? Nicholas Rasmussen:

Again, I want to be careful about talking about this particular case, because I think we have learned over time that these stories always have layers, and there will be layers to be uncovered as the NYPD and the FBI investigate this individual. Encore une fois, je veux faire attention à ne pas parler de ce cas particulier, car je pense que nous avons appris au fil du temps que ces histoires ont toujours des couches, et il y aura des couches à découvrir lorsque le NYPD et le FBI enquêteront sur cet individu.

But it, as I said, bears the hallmarks of the kind of terrorism we're seeing, individuals who are not necessarily tied directly to a terrorist organization. They're not operating at the command-and-control of some figure in Baghdad or some figure in Syria, but they are often operating inspired by a terrorism narrative that they see and attach to a group like ISIS. Ils n'opèrent pas sous le commandement et le contrôle d'une personnalité à Bagdad ou d'une personnalité en Syrie, mais ils opèrent souvent en s'inspirant d'un récit terroriste qu'ils voient et rattachent à un groupe comme ISIS. And those individuals acting alone can be quite lethal and quite dangerous. Et ces individus agissant seuls peuvent être assez meurtriers et assez dangereux. But they also, at the same time, don't — often don't have the same high-level capability of a terrorist cell of the sort we saw during the al-Qaida-dominated era of a few years ago. Mais en même temps, ils n'ont pas non plus - souvent n'ont pas la même capacité de haut niveau d'une cellule terroriste du type que nous avons vu à l'époque dominée par Al-Qaïda il y a quelques années. Judy Woodruff:

Well, you just referred to ISIS, the Islamic State, being driven out of the territory that they had been holding in Iraq and in Syria, so how do you describe the threat that they pose now to the United States? Eh bien, vous venez de faire référence à l'EI, l'État islamique, chassé du territoire qu'il détenait en Irak et en Syrie, alors comment décrivez-vous la menace qu'il représente maintenant pour les États-Unis ? Nicholas Rasmussen:

Well, we have certainly done a great deal to counter the kind of threat ISIS presented when it maintained that kind of territorial control over large swathes of Iraq and Syria. Eh bien, nous avons certainement fait beaucoup pour contrer le type de menace que ISIS présentait lorsqu'il maintenait ce type de contrôle territorial sur de vastes étendues de l'Irak et de la Syrie.

But now, having shrunk that territorial safe haven, the group is finding that it is adapting its model, looking to inspire individuals operating overseas, rather than trying to direct and command and control them, but instead looking to motivate individuals to act in their own environment. Mais maintenant, après avoir réduit ce refuge territorial, le groupe constate qu'il adapte son modèle, cherchant à inspirer les individus opérant à l'étranger, plutôt que d'essayer de les diriger, de les commander et de les contrôler, mais plutôt de chercher à motiver les individus à agir de leur propre chef. environnement. Don't come to Iraq and Syria. Do what you can where you are using whatever tools are at your disposal, whether that's a gun or a knife or a vehicle, as we saw in New York some weeks back as well. That's a different model of terrorism. It's harder to prevent. It looks often more like a criminal model, but it still can be quite lethal and dangerous. Judy Woodruff:

And what does that mean for Americans in terms of how Americans, people who live in this country should think about terrorism? Et qu'est-ce que cela signifie pour les Américains quant à la façon dont les Américains, les gens qui vivent dans ce pays, devraient penser au terrorisme ? Nicholas Rasmussen:

I think it calls — it puts us in a place where Americans need to be responsible, in many cases, for their own security, looking around, understanding what's happening around you, maintaining situational awareness, because it's not likely in most cases that the FBI or the federal government is going to bust up a terrorist cell of this sort in advance. Je pense que cela appelle - cela nous place dans un endroit où les Américains doivent être responsables, dans de nombreux cas, de leur propre sécurité, regarder autour de eux, comprendre ce qui se passe autour de vous, maintenir une conscience de la situation, car il est peu probable dans la plupart des cas que le FBI ou le gouvernement fédéral va démanteler à l'avance une cellule terroriste de ce genre. But, as I said, these acts almost operate at the level of criminal acts. They're not very different from what criminals often do. And so, much like other forms of criminal violence, see something, say something, you know, reach out to the local law enforcement authorities if you see something that looks amiss and be a participant in your own community's security. Et donc, tout comme d'autres formes de violence criminelle, voyez quelque chose, dites quelque chose, vous savez, contactez les autorités locales chargées de l'application de la loi si vous voyez quelque chose qui ne va pas et participez à la sécurité de votre propre communauté. Judy Woodruff:

So, what would you say are the odds of another huge 9/11-scale attack on this country? Alors, selon vous, quelles sont les chances d'une autre énorme attaque à l'échelle du 11 septembre contre ce pays ? Nicholas Rasmussen:

I don't know that I would put a single number on it, but I do know that the work we have done as a government against al-Qaida operating out of Pakistan and Iraq — Pakistan and Afghanistan over the last decade has made that kind of attack increasingly difficult for al-Qaida. Je ne sais pas si je mettrais un seul chiffre là-dessus, mais je sais que le travail que nous avons fait en tant que gouvernement contre al-Qaida opérant à partir du Pakistan et de l'Irak — le Pakistan et l'Afghanistan au cours de la dernière décennie a rendu ce genre d'attaque de plus en plus difficile pour al-Qaïda. And we face far less prospect of that kind of attack today than we faced a decade ago. That's something I think Americans can feel pretty good about. Je pense que les Américains peuvent se sentir plutôt bien. Judy Woodruff:

President Trump has taken, I think it's fair to say, a much stronger anti-Islam stance than his predecessors. How has that affected the work that you do? Nicholas Rasmussen:

I would say, at one level, it really doesn't impact the work that we do. The kind of direct security-service-to-security-service cooperation that we engage in with key partner countries around the world, whether that's — it's the British, the French, the Germans, the Australians, the Canadians, all of our closest partners, I would argue that it really doesn't impact day the day the kind of professional level law enforcement and intelligence operation we engage in. Le type de coopération directe entre services de sécurité et services de sécurité dans laquelle nous nous engageons avec des pays partenaires clés dans le monde, qu'il s'agisse des Britanniques, des Français, des Allemands, des Australiens, des Canadiens, de tous nos partenaires les plus proches , je dirais que cela n'a pas vraiment d'impact au jour le jour sur le type d'opérations d'application de la loi et de renseignement de niveau professionnel dans lesquelles nous nous engageons. Where it can become complicating sometimes is that we need the support and participation of Muslim communities in our effort to identify potential terrorists and to get ahead of or disrupt potential terrorist attacks. Là où cela peut parfois devenir compliqué, c'est que nous avons besoin du soutien et de la participation des communautés musulmanes dans nos efforts pour identifier les terroristes potentiels et pour devancer ou perturber les attentats terroristes potentiels.

And anything perceived — even if it's just a perception that the United States is anti-Islam, anything that makes that process of community engagement more difficult, that just adds to our challenges. Et tout ce qui est perçu – même s'il ne s'agit que d'une perception que les États-Unis sont anti-islamiques, tout ce qui rend ce processus d'engagement communautaire plus difficile, cela ne fait qu'ajouter à nos défis. Judy Woodruff:

Finally, there's a lot of conversation lately about cuts at the State Department and the diplomatic corps. Enfin, on parle beaucoup ces derniers temps de coupures au Département d'État et dans le corps diplomatique. What have you seen in terms of staffing in your own field? Qu'avez-vous vu en matière de dotation dans votre propre domaine? Have you seen cuts? And how is the morale there? The president has been pretty critical of the intelligence community in the past year. How do you — how do you… Nicholas Rasmussen:

Well, thus far, I think we have been able to sustain the kind of resource picture that we need to carry out the functions that the American people would want us to carry out. Eh bien, jusqu'à présent, je pense que nous avons été en mesure de maintenir le type de ressources dont nous avons besoin pour remplir les fonctions que le peuple américain voudrait que nous remplissions. And we have not experienced those kinds of cuts.

As far as morale is concerned, when you have a mission like counterterrorism, it isn't hard to keep morale up in your organization. En ce qui concerne le moral, quand vous avez une mission comme le contre-terrorisme, il n'est pas difficile de maintenir le moral dans votre organisation. My work force, my colleagues at NCTC, come to work every day knowing exactly why they're there, and it's to keep fellow Americans safe. They're also, I think, increasingly becoming used to the idea that everybody's better off in our line of work if you can tune out politics. Je pense aussi qu'ils s'habituent de plus en plus à l'idée que tout le monde est mieux dans notre travail si vous pouvez vous déconnecter de la politique. And so I encourage them to do that, tune out politics of — anything that you're watching on TV that causes you to stop doing what you're doing is probably not a good thing. So, especially with younger officers, I try to keep them focused on the mission, keep them focused on doing what they signed up to do, which is everything in their power to keep their fellow Americans safe. Donc, surtout avec les jeunes officiers, j'essaie de les garder concentrés sur la mission, de les garder concentrés sur ce qu'ils se sont engagés à faire, ce qui est tout ce qui est en leur pouvoir pour assurer la sécurité de leurs compatriotes américains. Judy Woodruff:

Nick Rasmussen, the director of the National Counterterrorism Center for the next, what, 11 days. Nicholas Rasmussen:

That's right. Judy Woodruff:

Thank you very much. Nicholas Rasmussen:

Thank you, Judy.